tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post677146078077796036..comments2024-02-29T11:54:28.419+00:00Comments on Ed's Beer Site: Beer Before BrewdogEdhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-45063813499944989232014-09-16T23:52:05.274+01:002014-09-16T23:52:05.274+01:0061 this November. cheers john61 this November. cheers johnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-49388736860601909082014-09-15T17:41:30.842+01:002014-09-15T17:41:30.842+01:00And older, I bet you.And older, I bet you.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-65729177590386694122014-09-12T00:20:24.391+01:002014-09-12T00:20:24.391+01:00That should have been Mr Stringer. oopsThat should have been Mr Stringer. oopsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-21711370433906528962014-09-12T00:18:42.211+01:002014-09-12T00:18:42.211+01:00Mr Brewdog was talking about the beer scene not sp...Mr Brewdog was talking about the beer scene not specifically the beer.Mr Stinger you may a better travelled man than me so I can only comment on my locality.cheers johnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-88575744524081860462014-09-11T10:07:16.929+01:002014-09-11T10:07:16.929+01:00Ah, "Britain Is Only London".Ah, "<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BritainIsOnlyLondon" rel="nofollow">Britain Is Only London</a>".StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-54383381778367991882014-09-10T22:18:51.823+01:002014-09-10T22:18:51.823+01:00You may have only had awful beers before 2007 but ...You may have only had awful beers before 2007 but I was drinking the nectar of the gods before then. Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-13720975322375248762014-09-10T22:04:55.056+01:002014-09-10T22:04:55.056+01:00It was only about 2 or 3 years ago the bloggers we...It was only about 2 or 3 years ago the bloggers were asking is Craft beer going to go mainstream.Brewdog were definitely ahead of the pack and put their(or someones )money where their mouth was.In 2007 their were only a handful of pubs In London selling interesting beers.Marble was unheard of in London. The explosion of London brewers hadn't yet happened so he is right .It was awful. cheers johnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-54611704714728722322014-09-10T12:56:29.902+01:002014-09-10T12:56:29.902+01:00The rhetoric from Brewdog does often sound very si...The rhetoric from Brewdog does often sound very similar to unreconstructed CAMRA rhetoric. Brewdog's mass market lager bashing sounds like something from CAMRA 20 years ago.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-32281649681251856252014-09-10T11:07:25.518+01:002014-09-10T11:07:25.518+01:00The whole "BD saved beer" narrative is e...The whole "BD saved beer" narrative is eerily like the "CAMRA saved beer" story. Mixing up (IMO) cause and effect. Correlation is not causation. etc. StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-20813684515054791512014-09-10T10:41:49.986+01:002014-09-10T10:41:49.986+01:00John - Agreed, and to clarify I'm not creditin...John - Agreed, and to clarify I'm not crediting BrewDog alone for that change in perceptions. They were perhaps the brewery who mostly keenly grasped that this new craft beer thing could be sold to Vice readers, which would make Guardian readers want it, which would eventually make everyone want it. They seem somewhere between stage 2 and stage 3 now?<br /><br />Ed - I must read Brew Britannia! The Rake sounds like a good starting point - a specialist beer bar with a "cool" NYC style atmosphere, just off Borough Market, home of foodies. It took a few years for that to spread to other bars though, as I recall - when I think "2006" it's still indie bands, Red Stripe and Captain Morgan. Maybe Meantime, in SE London, but we still understood that as a 'local' beer rather than a 'craft/new wave' beer. My own Trip to America That Changed Everything was May 2007, so maybe I was just behind the curve in that particular area. <br /><br />At risk of being ridiculously London-centric, it would be interesting to track the spread of craft/new wave from the starting point of the Rake outwards to the more salubrious/gentrified pubs of Zones 2, 3 etc. If my memory serves, it was probably Brooklyn Lager more than Brewdog that led the charge.<br /><br />oliverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17994256440939304505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-35960284634649101302014-09-10T10:22:25.607+01:002014-09-10T10:22:25.607+01:00I suspect it was something not everybody smells fo...I suspect it was something not everybody smells for some reason, like differing sensitivity to broccoli or asparagus. I'm sure it was there, though, not least because of that experience with the hops (really should have asked which it was at the time). This is pre-Pint but post-cloudy - mid- to late 2000s.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-84737221641300045132014-09-10T07:52:28.976+01:002014-09-10T07:52:28.976+01:00Oliver - fair point but I really don't think J...Oliver - fair point but I really don't think James Watt is being as subtle or thoughtful as that. I think we all know what he means here. John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-62179369856890297992014-09-10T07:49:49.338+01:002014-09-10T07:49:49.338+01:00That, Phil, is entirely a mater of opinion. I have...That, Phil, is entirely a mater of opinion. I have been drinking Marble beers since they started and thrpughout their various incarnations and personally have never encounterd a beer from them that smelled of vomit. Mind you - this was before you joined the hoppy path of righteousness.John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-298582307663013472014-09-10T07:46:12.962+01:002014-09-10T07:46:12.962+01:00Of course you don't - you just need a decent m...Of course you don't - you just need a decent memory for starters. John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-26378352421073844872014-09-10T07:06:22.797+01:002014-09-10T07:06:22.797+01:00Interesting point. Not being a trendy young hipste...Interesting point. Not being a trendy young hipster I don't really know, though the standard reference text for the period <i>Boak and Bailey, 2014</i> puts that change starting with The Rake in 2006. Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-70122013347703899682014-09-10T07:00:51.813+01:002014-09-10T07:00:51.813+01:00Do you need to be a historian to write about some...Do you need to be a historian to write about something that happened within your own adult life, seven years ago?Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-14097558919774698072014-09-09T23:05:00.758+01:002014-09-09T23:05:00.758+01:00There have been exciting pale beers around for qui...There have been exciting pale beers around for quite a while (as well as brown beers which don't deserve the 'boring' tag, but that's another argument). Looking back, I wonder if I was slow to get into pale beers because the ones my local dispensed were from Marble (rather than e.g. Pictish, Abbeydale or Oakham). There's a particular hop that Marble used to use* which made the beer smell of vomit, not to put too fine a point it. It gave quite a pleasantly tart, aromatic edge to the flavour, but you had to get the beer in your mouth without letting it linger beneath your nose for too long. As a lover of brown malty bitter, I couldn't really be doing with this - although I kept on trying them out of vague local loyalty, plus memories of beers like Uncut Amber and McKenna's Revenge. It wasn't till Dobber came around - made without that particular hop*, if my nose is any guide - that I got what the fuss was about.<br /><br />*Yes, I'm sure it was the hop, and not (for instance) the beer being off. I remember a Meet the Brewer event where Dom Driscoll put out little bowls of hops for the punters to sniff, and bam! there it was - eau de vomit.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-23335736098774019942014-09-09T22:34:48.295+01:002014-09-09T22:34:48.295+01:00Oakham are orders of magnitude more important than...Oakham are orders of magnitude more important than Brewdog. It was tasting JHB for the first time in around 2001 that made me realise there was something exciting happening. However, I would still have been perfectly happy drinking all the tasty beers I drank before then. Brewdog are (and I'm sorry if this is a surprise to anyone) full of shit.Rob Sterowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07870233673933087794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-40749627761968457482014-09-09T22:05:16.351+01:002014-09-09T22:05:16.351+01:00I think I got my timing wrong with the Nelson Sauv...I think I got my timing wrong with the Nelson Sauvin actually. Looks like that was in 2010. So I was probably a fresh fanboi EFP-er at the time... anyway, was still a year before BrewDog released their ground-breaking single-hop beers ;)Yvannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-39334309424789816372014-09-09T21:44:18.004+01:002014-09-09T21:44:18.004+01:00I moved to the UK in 2005. Initially the beer here...I moved to the UK in 2005. Initially the beer here all seemed pretty shit, but I was going to the wrong pubs it turned out. I went to this place called the Hop Pole in Aylesbury. Ten different beers on handpump. Ranging from pale and hoppy (a Darkstar I think) to rich and black. I was converted on the spot.<br /><br />And that was in *Aylesbury*. Sure, it was not at all usual as pubs go... but still. Hardly dark days for beer. <br /><br />Before I discovered BrewDog I was drinking Oakham regularly (having moved to Hertfordshire at this point). And my local brewery (Buntingford) was releasing single-hop beers that I was very much enjoying. I will never forget their rendition of Nelson Sauvin. I still have the pumpclip, it is on the mantelpiece right behind me. :) [This was after 2007, but before BrewDog had any national traction... can't remember exactly when, but I was an early-adopter of BrewDog, well before the 1st EFP).<br /><br />What has changed since 2005? I'd say that if you walk into a random pub you're still >80% likely to get really dull beer, probably badly kept. *But* based on Cambridge pub development in this time you're at least 5x more likely to find one of the still-too-rare gems. None of the great beer pubs sell BrewDog, in fact I think the only pub that does is a Greene King place that has Punk. Funny that. Is this now the only way BrewDog can get their beer into areas that don't have a BrewDog bar? Smells like fail to me.<br /><br /><br /><br />Yvannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-27135188681860431432014-09-09T20:48:30.415+01:002014-09-09T20:48:30.415+01:00James Watt isn't a historian -- he's a bus...James Watt isn't a historian -- he's a businessman with (sort of) the gift of the gab, so I wouldn't expect him to be a particularly reliable commentator.<br /><br />Beer before 2007 wasn't 'fucking awful' but I do recall, living in East London, having to use public transport to get to interesting beer, and needing to be a bit 'in the loop' to know where to go.<br /><br />These days, Walthamstow has pubs with multiple handpumps, bottles, interesting keg, etc., on almost every corner. (A slight exaggeration, but only slight...) Other urban areas are the same, while places like Newton Abbot have got to about where London was in 2005 -- interesting beer, if you know where to look.<br /><br />Though they've certainly been influential, BrewDog can't claim credit for *that* -- they're a particularly obvious symptom of the change, not the cause of it.Baileyhttp://boakandbailey.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-75811976571302692562014-09-09T20:22:17.340+01:002014-09-09T20:22:17.340+01:00There is perhaps another way of interpreting "...There is perhaps another way of interpreting "beer scene". Decent real ale (both trad and more micro varieties) has always been more or less available for those who care about beer and are willing to track it down - so a "beer scene" comprising beer lovers and breweries was just fine before 2007, if not particularly dynamic. But if by "beer scene" you mean "people interested in 'scenes' being interested in beer" - i.e. beer being cool, talked about, read about, written about, cared about, drunk, sought, made for and distributed to etc etc by cool people / foodies / Sunday supplement readers / young people / hipsters blah blah blah, I think they have a good case. Not saying it's a good or bad or even important thing, but a little beer knowledge is now virtually compulsory among "creative class" circles and that's had a massive knock on effect on widening distribution, at least in metropolitan areas, I can't speak for the rest. <br /><br />(born 1980, started drinking lager 1995, real ale/cider 2000, mostly lager 2000-2010, real ale / craft 2010 - onwards)oliverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17994256440939304505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-87722120519930071872014-09-09T16:29:02.481+01:002014-09-09T16:29:02.481+01:00Indeed. Usual guff from BD who, as Boak & Bai...Indeed. Usual guff from BD who, as Boak & Bailey have shown in their excellent book, are rather good at re-writing history. I suspect the breweries around back in 2007 (I see from my 2008 GBG [published autumn 2007] includes the likes of Marble, Thornbridge and Abbeydale among others) will be delighted to discover they were part of a "fucking awful" beer scene. John Clarkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00132845616834779091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-83122945673016364432014-09-09T16:22:59.934+01:002014-09-09T16:22:59.934+01:00Blogspot is a bit rubbish. Blogspot is a bit rubbish. Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2558050635605413616.post-50470940057567599972014-09-09T16:21:06.853+01:002014-09-09T16:21:06.853+01:00Back in the day pubs round my way were mainly owne...Back in the day pubs round my way were mainly owned by Allied and Courage. I like Allied's Burton Ale but was not so fond of Courage Directors. <br /><br />When I was a student I'd say most people drank lager but those of us that drank in the ways of righteousness still had a Real Ale Society. <br /><br />By the early 2000s I'm sure golden ales were big, and decent bottled beers were definitely a lot more common. Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13844169940650659196noreply@blogger.com